Martial property systems
Fragestellung
Marital property systems
Dear All,
I need an advice in this situation:
My wife and I had registered our marriage in Russia. At that time I was a Russian citizen and my wife was a Russian citizen. Later I got a Polish citizenship and renounced my Russian citizenship. Then we moved to Czech Republic.
Questions:
Which marital property system (Zugewinngemeinschaft; Gütertrennung; Gütergemeinschaft; Errungenschaftsgemeinschaft etc) by German law we currently have?
If we sign a marriage contract to define our marital property system in Czech Republic will it be recognized in Germany if we buy a property in Germany and move there to live?
Thank you!
Hinweis: Die Frage und Antwort wurde anonymisiert und mit Erlaubnis des Kunden veröffentlicht. Ihre eigene Frage wird standardmäßig nicht veröffentlicht.
Antwort von Rechtsanwalt Andreas Fischer
Dear Sir or Madam,
please refer to the upload as to your answer. For questions don't hesitate to use the comments functions "Kommentar abschicken".
Kind regards,
A. Fischer, Rechtsanwalt
Sie haben eine Frage im Bereich Familienrecht?
Raten Sie nicht weiter!
Unsere Rechtsanwält*innen geben Ihnen gerne eine kostenlose
Ersteinschätzung zu Ihrem Anliegen.
Jetzt kostenlose Ersteinschätzung einholen
Bewertung des Kunden
Wie prüfen wir die Echtheit von Kundenbewertungen?
Kundenbewertungen, die als verifiziert gekennzeichnet sind, wurden von Kund*innen getätigt, die mit ihrem registrierten Kundenkonto eine kostenpflichtige Beratung erworben haben. Nach Zahlung und Beratungsabschluss erhalten unsere Kund*innen einen Bewertungslink und haben darüber die Möglichkeit, eine entsprechende Bewertung abzugeben.
Bei unseren Bewertungen handelt es sich ausschließlich um verifizierte Bewertungen.
Der auf den Profilen unserer Expert*innen angezeigte Bewertungsdurchschnitt setzt sich ausschließlich aus verifizierten Bewertungen zusammen. Jeder Bewertung wird für die Berechnung des Bewertungsdurchschnitts dabei die gleiche Gewichtung zugemessen.
Wir veröffentlichen alle Kundenbewertungen, unabhängig von der Anzahl der vergebenen Sterne. Eine Löschung findet nur statt, wenn wir dazu rechtlich verpflichtet sind (z.B. beleidigender Inhalt).
Wie prüfen wir die Echtheit von Kundenbewertungen?
Kundenbewertungen, die als verifiziert gekennzeichnet sind, wurden von Kund*innen getätigt, die mit ihrem registrierten Kundenkonto eine kostenpflichtige Beratung erworben haben. Nach Zahlung und Beratungsabschluss erhalten unsere Kund*innen einen Bewertungslink und haben darüber die Möglichkeit, eine entsprechende Bewertung abzugeben.
Bei unseren Bewertungen handelt es sich ausschließlich um verifizierte Bewertungen.
Der auf den Profilen unserer Expert*innen angezeigte Bewertungsdurchschnitt setzt sich ausschließlich aus verifizierten Bewertungen zusammen. Jeder Bewertung wird für die Berechnung des Bewertungsdurchschnitts dabei die gleiche Gewichtung zugemessen.
Wir veröffentlichen alle Kundenbewertungen, unabhängig von der Anzahl der vergebenen Sterne. Eine Löschung findet nur statt, wenn wir dazu rechtlich verpflichtet sind (z.B. beleidigender Inhalt).
- Did I understand it correctly that if my wife and I sign a marriage contract on the territory of Czech Republic in front of a Czech Public Notary it will be recognized in Germany?
- Must the marriage contract be apostilled in Czech Republic or it must be just translated into German?
- The marriage contract must be registered in the Register of Property Rights in Czech Republic or in Germany (“Güterrechtsregister”) or in both countries?
- “(1) The matrimonial property regime is governed by the law governing the general effects of themarriage upon conclusion of the marriage. (2) The spouses may choose for their matrimonial property regime: 3. as to real property the law of the country in which this is situated.”
“(4) The choice of law must be notarially certified. If it is not performed within the country, it is sufficient if the formal requirements of a marriage contract under the law chosen or of the place of the choice of law are observed.”
- If we sign a marriage contract on the territory of Czech Republic do we need to indicate in this contract that our choice of law regarding our German real estate is German law?
- Do I understand it correctly that German laywer can prepare a marriage contract for us and we can make the notarization before a Consular official of the Federal Republic of Germany in Prague? Do you think it would be a better option for us than to make the notarization in front of a Czech Public Notary or it really doesn't matter?
- How much it would cost if you prepare for us such a marriage contract?
Looking forward to hear from you soon!
you are welcome.
to answer your questions below:
- Did I understand it correctly that if my wife and I sign a marriage contract on the territory of Czech Republic in front of a Czech Public Notary it will be recognized in Germany?
Answer: Yes, Within the limits as mentionned in my expert opinion, for example German ordre public still may remain an impediment to recognition.
- Must the marriage contract be apostilled in Czech Republic or it must be just translated into German?
Answer: That depends on the purpose of your use of the contract and cannot be answered in general. It may be at the discretion of the authority in question, and there also may even be additional law reqarding this issue. You must ask that the German authority where you turn in your contract. German authorities only recognized translated documents and will request proof of evidence.
- The marriage contract must be registered in the Register of Property Rights in Czech Republic or in Germany (“Güterrechtsregister”) or in both countries?
Answer: As far as I know, Czech Law does not even know a separation of goods as you probablyinted it. So I would recommend turning it in in Germany wherever the contract will be used.
- “(1) The matrimonial property regime is governed by the law governing the general effects of themarriage upon conclusion of the marriage. (2) The spouses may choose for their matrimonial property regime: 3. as to real property the law of the country in which this is situated.”
“(4) The choice of law must be notarially certified. If it is not performed within the country, it is sufficient if the formal requirements of a marriage contract under the law chosen or of the place of the choice of law are observed.”
- If we sign a marriage contract on the territory of Czech Republic do we need to indicate in this contract that our choice of law regarding our German real estate is German law?
Answer: Yes you should, and also you must differentiate between the rules / applicability of German international private Law and German material law.
- Do I understand it correctly that German laywer can prepare a marriage contract for us and we can make the notarization before a Consular official of the Federal Republic of Germany in Prague?
Answer: That seems to be feasible.
Do you think it would be a better option for us than to make the notarization in front of a Czech Public Notary or it really doesn't matter?
Answer: If you want to use the document in Germany, the first choice is preferable.
- How much it would cost if you prepare for us such a marriage contract?
Answer: To prepare a draft of a marriage contract, I would charge aproximately 300 Euro and it takes about one week.
YourXpert has a standard product and I must remain over the prices as offered there:
https://www.yourxpert.de/ehevertrag-erstellen-lassen
(299 Euro for the draft of a marriage contract)
https://www.yourxpert.de/ehevertrag-pruefen-lassen
(249 Euro to verify a draft)
Kind regards,
A. Fischer, Rechtsanwalt
I will accept Your offer "Draft of a marriage contract as discussed" but before I need to ask some questions:
- if for any reasons we wouldn't be able to make the notarization before a Consular official of the Federal Republic of Germany in Prague could we do it in any German city/town in front of a German Public Notary even though we don't live in Germany?
If so, could you arrange such meeting for us and get guidance for us from a German Public Notary like whether we need to bring with us an interpreter as we don't speak German or maybe it could be arranged at the place of German Public Notary and other guidances? How much such Your service would cost?
- I want to buy a real estate property from ZV auction soon. To take part in a ZV auction I need to transfer a 10% deposit of the property cost.
If we will sign a German marriage contract after my bid will win but before I will pay the rest 90% of the property cost - in this case will our marital property system be working for this real estate property according with our marriage contract or so as to work according with our marriage contract we need to sign it before transferring a 10% deposit of the property cost?
Looking forward to hear from you soon.
Which from these two options for us would be more favorable or in this case it really doesn't matter?
this is to answer your further questions.
Q:- if for any reasons we wouldn't be able to make the notarization before a Consular official of the Federal Republic of Germany in Prague could we do it in any German city/town in front of a German Public Notary even though we don't live in Germany?
A: To my knowledge, a residency in Germany is not a requirement to obtain a legalization by a German Notary Public.
This is where you find the applicable German statute:
https://dejure.org/gesetze/GNotKG/86.html
The easier recognition of your marriage contract in Germany is a perfectly legitime reason to have the contract notarized in Germany. You may have to make appointments in advance, of course, give them a reliable mailing address though and, as far as one of the spouses is not able to sufficiently understand and speak German, they may request to bring an interpreter.
Q: If so, could you arrange such meeting for us and get guidance for us from a German Public Notary like whether we need to bring with us an interpreter as we don't speak German or maybe it could be arranged at the place of German Public Notary and other guidances? How much such Your service would cost?
A.: Unfortunately, I am not offering such services.
However, there are plenty of German Notary Publics that are able to speak English and help you with preparing such an appointment. I suggest to chose one that is strategocally close to wherever you live or where you want to live one day.
You may also consider, once an appointment date is set, asking the local "Landgericht" (Superior Court) for a list of interpreters with you language pair. Most notaries will also be able to make further recommendations.
Q. - I want to buy a real estate property from ZV auction soon. To take part in a ZV auction I need to transfer a 10% deposit of the property cost.
If we will sign a German marriage contract after my bid will win but before I will pay the rest 90% of the property cost - in this case will our marital property system be working for this real estate property according with our marriage contract or so as to work according with our marriage contract we need to sign it before transferring a 10% deposit of the property cost?
A. Yes., you need/ should sign the contract befor the transaction happens. You will directly acquire new ownership at the moment with the acceptance of your bid as the highest ("Zuschlag"). The new status of marital property will only apply a the earliest at the time of sigature ("ex nunc").
https://dejure.org/gesetze/ZVG/90.html
One question: What exactly are you planning, as the result of your transaction?
To be more precise:
Who of the spouses shall (as a result) be owner of the property: a) one spouse only b) joint ownership c) other shares of co-ownernship? - Under the "Errungenschaftsgemeinschaft" according to Russian material law, I reckon, you should be likely to acquire joint ownership?
01.08.2020 14:59 Uhr Neu
P.S. A German Public Notary and a Consular official of the Federal Republic of Germany in Prague would have the same legitimacy?
A: Yes, from a German point of view, definitively. Also, there are, dependent from the German State ("Bundesstaat") whereever they are located, two different kind of Notaries Public: Private ones and State officials, but they also are equally legitimate and they also cost the same.
Q: Which from these two options for us would be more favorable or in this case it really doesn't matter?
A. It really does not matter. I would compare costs/ fees. They relate to the value of the contract in question.
Eventually the official in Prague may be cheaper compared to the German Notary Public.
Kind regards,
A. Fischer, Ra
- "One question: What exactly are you planning, as the result of your transaction?"
As a result of our marriage contract we need that any/all of real estate that I will buy in the future will belong just to me and any/all of real estate that my wife will buy in the future will belong just to her. So, we want the contract not just for this one house but for all real estate any of us will buy in the future. For now this is the main thing we need to put in our marriage contract.
- "You will directly acquire new ownership at the moment with the acceptance of your bid as the highest ("Zuschlag")."
My ZV auction will be 11.08.20 or 12.08.20.
Question: Can I transfer NOW to the Amtsgericht 10% deposit of the ZV auction property price and then to sign our marriage contract before the date of the ZV auction? In this case our new status of marital property will apply to the bought property even though I have sent 10% deposit before we signed our marriage contract? (Please, let me know if you didn't understand my question)
Please, prepare the contract asap. Please, let me know if you need any further information from us.
Looking forward to hear from you see.
P.S. in my first massage you can get information which citizenship we currently hold and where we currently live etc.
Thank you very much for your help. I've rated your service with 5 stars! Please, let me know if I need to accept your previous job by pressing any button here
thanks for the excellent rating.
Offer for "marriage contract":
If you follow these comments further up, there is a link "Angebot ansehen":
"31.07.2020 06:23 Uhr
Ich habe Ihnen soeben ein Angebot für eine Folgeberatung unterbreitet. Unter folgendem Link können Sie dieses aufrufen: Angebot ansehen."
There you also should find a button that allows to accept the offer.
Kind regards
A. Fischer, Ra
"Dear Sir,
- "One question: What exactly are you planning, as the result of your transaction?"
As a result of our marriage contract we need that any/all of real estate that I will buy in the future will belong just to me and any/all of real estate that my wife will buy in the future will belong just to her. So, we want the contract not just for this one house but for all real estate any of us will buy in the future. For now this is the main thing we need to put in our marriage contract.
- "You will directly acquire new ownership at the moment with the acceptance of your bid as the highest ("Zuschlag")."
My ZV auction will be 11.08.20 or 12.08.20.
Question: Can I transfer NOW to the Amtsgericht 10% deposit of the ZV auction property price and then to sign our marriage contract before the date of the ZV auction? In this case our new status of marital property will apply to the bought property even though I have sent 10% deposit before we signed our marriage contract? (Please, let me know if you didn't understand my question)
Please, prepare the contract asap. Please, let me know if you need any further information from us.
Looking forward to hear from you see.
P.S. in my first massage you can get information which citizenship we currently hold and where we currently live etc."
We should exchange further comments directly at the new location for the draft of a marriage contract. I will try to find for you an English version of YourXpert standard questions regarding marriage contracts (or translate, if necessary).
Kind regards,
A. Fischer, Ra